"Mattbob" (mattbob)
03/01/2016 at 21:13 • Filed to: bikelopnik, cyclopnik, bikes, bicycles
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"Mattbob" (mattbob)
03/01/2016 at 21:13 • Filed to: bikelopnik, cyclopnik, bikes, bicycles | 0
| 38 |
Does anyone have any experience with these bikes? I have made this table, and am trying to determine which bike is the best for the money. Obviously I need to test ride first, but I need more input!
Bike pictured was the stock form of my current bike.
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Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
> Mattbob
03/01/2016 at 21:32 |
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Trek or Giant, ride them both then pick the one you like the most. Specialized makes a good bike but they are priced high for what you get. At this level I prefer shimano, my daughter has a deore/SLX bike an it shifts and brakes really well. I have a Trek rumble fish 29er. I love it. They make a solid bike that pedals well. Jamis and GT are going to look like nice bikes but they just don’t have the frame technology that the other brands do. If you want to stick with a hard tail you can get a lot more bike in a hard tail 29er compared to a dual suspension. Example: http://www.rei.com/product/876815…
Somethin' 'bout a truck
> Mattbob
03/01/2016 at 21:33 |
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Give the new 650b’s a shot! They are amazing!
HammerheadFistpunch
> Mattbob
03/01/2016 at 21:41 |
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dayum, you can’t even get an XT rear for 2700 these days?
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HammerheadFistpunch
> Mattbob
03/01/2016 at 21:44 |
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I used to sell specialized, giant, GT and trek and they each have their pros and cons. The truth is though that you need to settle on what kind of bike you want first, i.e. stance vs trance. Me personally I think the sweet spot is 140 mm of travel, no more, but I also have a hardtail with an 80mm fork that I love too. People in my riding group seem happy with both the trance and the fuel but the giants are holding up better.
Clutchman83
> Mattbob
03/01/2016 at 21:44 |
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So you want a basic trail bike? I’m partial to Giants but any of those bikes will work fine.
CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
> Mattbob
03/01/2016 at 21:46 |
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I work at a shop, so I will be biased. SRAM has a new 11 speed gruppo which is rather inexpensive, so 9 speed might not be a good idea especially with the growing popularity of 1X10 or 1x11. Specialized sells for way more than it is worth at times, so yeah. You’re mostly paying for the brand in that case. I haven’t ridden in the GT Sensor but customers have nothing but good things to say about it. A bit of weird angles with the internal routing. Stick with Shimano hydro brakes. SRAM has awful brakes to bleed. I spent 4 hours on my Rear Elixir R brakes. Formula has dodgy quality issues. And Shimano takes 30 minutes. Try all of them. See how they are specced.
Ssfancyfresh
> HammerheadFistpunch
03/01/2016 at 22:47 |
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That’s what blows me away. $2500 gets you mediocre madness.
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Ssfancyfresh
> Mattbob
03/01/2016 at 22:53 |
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I don’t mean to make things more difficult by presenting more options, but I’m going to do just that. I’ve had great luck finding used bikes in fantastic condition here:
What I like about the MTBR classifieds vs. craigslist or ebay is that it’s just bikes and the folks that post ads tend to be enthusiasts. So they have pretty good stuff. You don’t have to sift through 600 ads of parents trying to get rid of their kids’ shitty Huffy.
You’ve got a great spreadsheet and I think you’re on the right track of determining value/dollar. A used bike is an even better value and some of these on your list (or similar) may be posted on MTBR>
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HammerheadFistpunch
> Mattbob
03/01/2016 at 23:01 |
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I will also add to check for last years models, better deals by far
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Mattbob
> Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
03/01/2016 at 23:02 |
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I want a full suspension on this bike. That is the main reason I’m getting a new bike is for a rear suspension. I love my hard tail but I hate bouncing on climbs and losing traction, and sketchy downhill performance. I actually hear the GT frame setup is pretty good. Its not a single pivot like the Jamis is. I’ve also been doing a ton of research into rear suspension geometry.
smobgirl
> Mattbob
03/01/2016 at 23:02 |
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My opinion is to find a shop that has a few and try a demo program where your money will go towards the final purchase. You can throw numbers around all day but if something doesn’t feel right, it doesn’t feel right.
I’ve got a Niner, for what it’s worth. Couldn’t get a Giant or Specialized to be comfy to save my life - Trek was fine but bad dealer experience (they tried to pinkbike me) and I ended up buying another shop owner’s old personal bike.
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Mattbob
> Ssfancyfresh
03/01/2016 at 23:04 |
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Two reasons I am going new, are having a waranty on a new bike is legitimately a good thing to have, and I don’t trust used air shocks.
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Mattbob
> CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
03/01/2016 at 23:06 |
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Looking at that base camber 650b actually seems like a lot of bike for the $1500 they are asking for it right now. The sensor just makes me a bit worried about mud getting into thatsuspension/shock area and being hard to clean.
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Mattbob
> HammerheadFistpunch
03/01/2016 at 23:11 |
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Really, the Giants are holding up better? This is one huge point I was trying to research, but couldn’t find much on. Which brands actually last longest? I have no problem keeping my bike clean and lubed, but I will be pissed if I have to change suspension bushings and bearings every year or two. I love my hardtail, and will keep it for the more XC trails, but I really want a full suspension to be able to carry some speed over stuff. The one single thing that has made me think twice about the trance is that it has the smaller rear axle instead of the newer 12mm design. The stance is only really on there because it is cheap. I don’t really like the suspension design (on paper). Bottom line, I really still need to ride these.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> Mattbob
03/01/2016 at 23:15 |
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I wouldn’t worry about either of those things personally. but thats just me. I’ve had the same rear shock on my blur for over a decade.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> Mattbob
03/01/2016 at 23:16 |
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Don’t forget that Giant builds a LOT of bikes, including most of the competitions below a certain price point. they know how to make a bike.
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Mattbob
> Ssfancyfresh
03/01/2016 at 23:16 |
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yeah, bikes are insane these days. in the past 8 years, Trek took my bike model, cheapened the hell out of the components (went from deore to acera/altus), and added 30% to the price.
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Ssfancyfresh
> Mattbob
03/01/2016 at 23:16 |
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Those are reasons to go with new.
I will say this, I have a friend that made a warranty claim for a frame replacement (Gary Fisher) as the second owner. The local bike shop helped him process the claim.
Decent forks and shocks can be rebuilt. Most should be serviced at regular intervals anyway.
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Mattbob
> CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
03/01/2016 at 23:19 |
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Do you know much about those x-fusion shocks? I was color coding that table by component quality but have no idea about those. I’ve read good things, but don’t know how they compare directly to RS/Fox
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CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
> Mattbob
03/02/2016 at 00:29 |
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I can ask my coworkers...I honestly haven’t heard anything about them, good or bad.
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CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
> Mattbob
03/02/2016 at 00:34 |
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It’s not really of an issue of the mud (it’s expected in any mountain bike) but it just needs to get washed off after every ride so nothing gets fucked up. You might have to occasionally lube the rear suspension bits so all stays smooth.
valsidalv, reminding you that infiniti is an option
> Mattbob
03/02/2016 at 01:56 |
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It’s great to have a list but you absolutely need to test ride and in doing so you’ll greatly narrow down your options. Last summer I decided to shell out for a new full suspension MTB and tested out 9 different bikes in one day from 4 different shops. Some instantly felt weird to me while others were better and a few made me feel right at home. I finally had a list of finalists and that’s when I started looking closer at components and price. You might then be able to go from one shop to another and tell them your situation to see if they can beat their price. I ended up going with a Trek Fuel EX 8 because it was on sale at $1200 off MSRP at the time which was a steal.
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valsidalv, reminding you that infiniti is an option
> Mattbob
03/02/2016 at 01:57 |
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It’s great to have a list but you absolutely need to test ride and in doing so you’ll greatly narrow down your options. Last summer I decided to shell out for a new full suspension MTB and tested out 9 different bikes in one day from 4 different shops. Some instantly felt weird to me while others were better and a few made me feel right at home. I finally had a list of finalists and that’s when I started looking closer at components and price. You might then be able to go from one shop to another and tell them your situation to see if they can beat their price. I ended up going with a Trek Fuel EX 8 because it was on sale at $1200 off MSRP at the time which was a steal.
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Mattbob
> valsidalv, reminding you that infiniti is an option
03/02/2016 at 07:27 |
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nice! There is an EX 8 on sale near me for like $2300, but I won’t be able to get it before the sale. How do you like the Trek?
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Mattbob
> HammerheadFistpunch
03/02/2016 at 07:28 |
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yeah, last years model would be ideal, but they are getting less common in the large frame size around this time of year. If I see one when I start going out to shops, I will definitely try it.
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Mattbob
> Ssfancyfresh
03/02/2016 at 07:36 |
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yeah, I have a Gary Fisher now, and knowing that I have that coverage is really a nice thing to have. I don’t want to be afraid to break my bike.
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Mattbob
> CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
03/02/2016 at 08:13 |
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Dang, those 1x11 sets have come down. I might go with a bike with a cheaper groupset, and buy this with the money saved. Do you have any idea what the prereqs are to install a 1x11 groupset are? http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/shimano-…
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valsidalv, reminding you that infiniti is an option
> Mattbob
03/02/2016 at 08:50 |
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Like you I was coming from a hard tail - an '07 Specialized Rockhopper. Any full-susser will feel like riding on a cloud. Since my bike was so old and so much has happened in the MTB world since then I was introduced to air shocks, 2x10 gears, hydraulic brakes, and of course the 29" wheels which are night and day compared to my old 26". The Trek is barely heavier than my old hard tail as well. Use your new bike for trails and keep the old one for commuting.
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Mattbob
> valsidalv, reminding you that infiniti is an option
03/02/2016 at 09:42 |
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I’m probably going to put the old one on a diet and make it a full rigid XC bike for one or two local XC type trails, but same idea. My shock probably only has a season left in it before it is too far gone to put any money into it. The stanchions have a few quite a few scratches, and the lowers are looking beat up. Getting rid of the dropper post, going to a solid fork, and maybe going to a single chain ring in front should lighten it up quite a bit.
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Mattbob
> Ssfancyfresh
03/02/2016 at 09:52 |
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yeah, at that price you have to go hard tail to get the higher level components.
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valsidalv, reminding you that infiniti is an option
> Mattbob
03/02/2016 at 10:07 |
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That’d be a cool project. When I picked up my Trek that freed up the Rockhopper so I went a little nuts with “upgrades”. Replaced the stock coil front fork with an air one that accommodates a 29" so now it’s a 69'er (coincidentally Trek built a few 69'ers for several years), put on hydraulic brakes and changed the shifters. New pedals, grips, and all the fun stuff. In the end I spent nearly $600 but I basically got to rebuild almost the entire bike and now I have a better idea of how it all works. Yay wrenching!
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Mattbob
> valsidalv, reminding you that infiniti is an option
03/02/2016 at 10:37 |
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yeah, wrenching on a bike is one of those things that people think is an art, but really isn’t that hard. I made another spreadsheet a month back, and realized I have replaced everything on my bike aside from the rear wheel, frame, handlebars, shifters, and derailleurs. Literally everything else has been replaced by me at this point. Also going from my old Dart 2 to a used Fox float Talas was such a massive difference in performance. Going to a better fork makes a huge difference.
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CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
> Mattbob
03/02/2016 at 12:41 |
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A 11 speed compatible hub on the bike, a cassette that will fit the shimano or SRAM splines on said hub, a chain guide, a deraileur with a clutch (highly preferred but not required).
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Mattbob
> CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
03/03/2016 at 22:51 |
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What do you think about the gt sensor elite? I can get it cheap enough that i could swap out the drive train. Is gt any good these days?
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Mattbob
> HammerheadFistpunch
03/03/2016 at 22:55 |
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Any love for gt? I could get last years sensor for cheap and swap the triple for a double
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CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
> Mattbob
03/04/2016 at 04:26 |
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From the specs, it’s pretty good in the fact that it runs Shimano gruppo. It’s a bit on the heavy side but I’d have to ask my coworkers on the riding characteristics and get back to you on that. GT is much better than they were. They actually make good stuff and put their money in the geometry and suspension. Even within the last year, they have stepped up their game. GT has really awful cable routing. It’s just bad. So make sure to bring out the mastic tape. Just make sure if you ever consider the GT sensor elite and buy inevitably from Perfor__nce Bikes, make sure you have it assembled by them. The strange reason is a obscure clause in GT’s warranty that it must be built by a person at a bike shop or the warranty is not valid. Yeah.
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Mattbob
> CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
03/04/2016 at 08:32 |
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How much of a difference do you think a QR Rear axle makes versus a 12mm thru axle. Thats the one thing that makes me think twice about the GT at this point.
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CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
> Mattbob
03/04/2016 at 10:26 |
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The thru axle is going to be much stiffer than the QR.